Wall St. Analysts’ thoughts on eBay Analyst Day….

Yesterday eBay had their first Analyst day in three years.  We had lots of coverage here at eBay Strategies and are continuing with the Wall St. reaction followed by one last summary piece later today. Here's a guide to the coverage:

Usually after an event like this the stock analysts issue reports.  These reports include interesting nuances that in many cases were picked up in side discussions and what-not.  It's also interesting for eBay sellers to understand what's going on as frequently marketplace-moving changes are introduced at a high-level at these events.  Strategically, understanding where eBay is going can help sellers plan their strategies for the coming year(s) and plan for where eBay should be in that mix.

Analysts tend to use these opportunities to also change their view on a company.  Analysts have some combination of a rating (buy, sell, hold, underperform) and some have a price target.  Movements in these can move markets of course, but I also look at them as signals.  In this case, everyone in the eBay world is looking for some sign of the bottom of the marketplace's problems and when analysts get bullish that would be a strong signal.

Here's a quick recap of the analyst notes I've seen so far this am.  PT is an abbreviation for Price Target and as a point of reference the stock is in the $11-12 range right now.  These are in the order that I received them and the bolding and comments marked (editorial) are my own.  I've put the analysts into three buckets based on their ratings - Bullish, Neutral, Bearish.

Bullish
  • Marianne Wolk - Susquehanna (say that three times fast) - $18PT  (Editorial: Marianne had lots of paypal that I didn't put here as we focus on the marketplace biz)
    •  We believe there is value to the core eBay
      franchise, which has more than 86.3 mln active worldwide users as of 4Q08 and
      ~17-18% domestic eCommerce share in 4Q08. Many of these users are loyal
      buyers/sellers, and with stronger company actions and a more benign economic
      backdrop, we believe usage and monetization levels could improve in time
      (albeit our estimates assume this is not until 2010). 
       
       
    • The major change we heard at the analyst day is
      that the company expects to incorporate more classified listings and
      advertising with the search results for users.
       (Editorial - more advertising - GREAT!)
  •   Heath Terry - FBR - OUTPERFORM - $16PT
    •  While
      there is significant execution risk as the company attempts to create a
      “New eBay”, at less than 6x forward EBITDA we believe investors are
      being paid to take that risk. We believe the stock represents an attractive
      long-term risk/reward, as our $16 price target equates to a 6x EV/EBITDA
      multiple.
       
       
Neutral-ish (is that a word?)
  • Spencer Wang - Credit Suisse- PT - $15 - Neutral
    • Overall,
      we are encouraged by management’s initiatives to maintain its role as a key
      connection between buyers and sellers of goods, to extend PayPal’s scale, to
      “transform” Marketplaces, and to accelerate growth at Skype.
       
       
       
  • Gene Munster - Piper - Neutral - no PT
    • We are incrementally more positive on eBay, given potential
      changes to the marketplace platform, which could come late in
      2009, according to the company. We remain Neutral on EBAY shares, as
      ultimately, we need to see changes to the platform that
       improve the
      user experience and arrest market share losses. 
  • Collin Sebastian - Lazard - HOLD -  
    •  2011 targets provide an optimistic
      scenario assuming a rebounding economy. Highlighting the Analyst Day, management
      provided a range of 2011 revenue and margin targets, under the assumption
      that the economy rebounds next year and that growth in PayPal, Skype, and
      marketing services continues to offset the declining auction marketplace.
      In the near term we expect 2009 to be another challenging year for eBay in
      the midst of transition in a weak economy
       
  •   Imran Kahn - Neutral - 
    •  …we continue to be cautious on the story, as many of the announced
      changes may not fully materialize until 2011. Additionally, we believe
      competition from Amazon and other online commerce sites could create further
      risks to the companys financial targets.
       
  •   Jim Friedland - Cowen - Neutral - 
    •  (1) the company is actively addressing the
      challenges in its core marketplaces business, but we think its three-year
      revenue and margin projections are too high; (2) PayPal is well positioned to
      demonstrate continued growth; (3) Skype is for sale in our view; and (4) a
      dividend is unlikely and management seems to be unwilling to repatriate its
      cash position for a buyback due to tax implications.
       
    •  We think competition from alternative channels,
      such as Amazon and Google Search, is a serious threat to the marketplaces
      business. Amazon and Google offer attractive seller pricing (it is free to
      upload inventory to Google's product search database). Further, we believe the
      superior buying experience on Amazon and search experience on Google reduces
      the value of the eBay platform for buyers and sellers. Even though eBay is
      dedicating significant resources to enhancing search, improving the user
      interface, and other buyer/seller features, we believe it will be difficult for
      the company to catch up to Amazon.
  •   Mary Meeker - Morgan Stanley - equal-weight
    • eBay noted 2009 marketplace GMV should grow slower than market (we assume -12% Y/Y); 2010 should grow with market (we assume +8% Y/Y) while 2011 should grow faster than market (we assume only +4% Y/Y).  
  •   Derek Brown - Cantor - HOLD - $13 PT
    • On the one
      hand, we were very impressed by mgmt, most (if not all) of whom were
      presenting at his/her first Investor Day; its willingness
      to admit past errors/oversights in strategy, product development,
      technology and customer relations; and, its unyielding
      commitment to drive “foundational” change within the core of eBay
      (both its culture and Marketplace franchise); on the other, it
      seems clear to us that eBay's revitalization efforts remain very
      much a work in progress and we think hopes for a healthy
      recovery by 2011 may be premature.
  • Ben Schachter UBS - $14 PT, Neutral  
    • Management expects the Marketplaces division to grow
      slower than the market in 2009, with the market in 2010 and outpace the market
      in 2011.
      EBAY expects to bring large
      scale changes to its Marketplaces division that will take time to implement.
      The company is attempting to improve its user experience by expanding efforts
      to include more liquidation/out-of-season products and by overhauling its
      search function to bring more relevant searches to the forefront (highlighting
      inventory from across the EBAY ecosystem). Even if we assume they can execute
      on this strategy and stabilize the marketplace, it will take time and guidance
      does not imply real growth until 2011. We continue to remain cautious on
      management’s ability to execute and expect the stock to reflect more near-term
      execution than promises the company makes about 2011.
       
       
       
  • James Mitchell - Goldman (Golden Slacks as Cramer says) - $14 PT  - Neutral  
    • We view
      management’s marketplace objective of focusing on the “secondary”
      (used/discontinued/discounted/ end-of-season items) rather than “primary” (new/in-season
      items) category as a rational strategy for minimizing head-to-head conflict
      with Amazon. However, “secondary” may account for a declining portion of
      overall e-commerce over time, potentially condemning eBay’s marketplace to
      perpetually under-grow the e-commerce market.
       
       
       
  • Christa Quarles - TWP - Market Weight 
    • We believe eBay's
      strategy makes sense and the actions the company has taken thus far (changing
      management, putting technology at the centerpiece, strategically cutting costs
      and reinvesting in growth) are in the right direction. However, it's still
      unclear if core marketplace will look as management defines it in 2011 (e.g.
      the margins may be 25% not 35-45%) and it may take much more time to fix,
      particularly if the macroeconomic environment stays weak. We remain on the
      sidelines, but could start to see some value investors with long time horizons
      starting to get more interested in the story. 
       
Bearish
  • Justin Post - Merrill Lynch - PT - $13 - UNDERPERFORM
    •  Upbeat presentation, but one message from the
      day was that eBay was still early in their turnaround and that things would get
      worse before they would get better.
       
  •   Jeetil Patel - SELL - $11 PT
    • While filled with long- term optimism, we
      thought the analyst event lacked near-term reality with respect to the current
      deteriorating fundamentals. In light of no near-term (2009) guidance,
      anticipate acceleration in growth, competitive pressures and economic backdrop,
      we think it's difficult to put much credibility into the 3-year plan. We think
      investors should gauge eBay against near-term performance. 
    •  Near–term, the marketplace business is expected to
      underperform industry growth trends before flattening out next year and
      reaccelerating in 2011 – representing an optimistic view from eBay, we think .
      Clearly, this business represents the cash cow, and risk remains on declining
      demand, high seller commissions and lack of interface changes. We think the
      Skype unit is actually performing well, and management should hold on to this
      business model.   
    •  The problem in the core lies with lack of demand, seller fees running too high and an e-commerce interface that is inconsistent with the industry norm (think product orientation, not listings metaphor). It is quite difficult for sellers to generate cash flows if they have to discount pricing (relative to other sites and direct) and maintain in-line to above-market commissions on selling on the platform, especially with weakening demand.  
That's all folks - later today, seller view of all the news.
I may update this post as more items come in.  If I do, I'll highlight them with three stars like this ***. I think the funniest thing I read was from Christa@TWP who led with: “Should eBay Change ticker to PYPL?”

Later today I'll put together a 'what does this mean for sellers' post as we're getting lots of inbound questions around this from customers.

Seeking Alpha Disclosure - I am long google and Amazon

 

Read more here:
Wall St. Analysts’ thoughts on eBay Analyst Day….

Share/Save/Bookmark

eBay analyst day news roundup.

Some news reports are hitting from analyst day that I thought readers would be interested in so I've captured some of them here for your reading+viewing pleasure.  Tomorrow and later tonight the stock analysts will chime in as well and I'll try and summarize some of their findings.  Also, I have the Citi call with Mahaney (contact him if you want to participate) at 11am ET tomorrow (3/12/09) and after that will be publishing our thoughts on the analyst day and the implications for sellers here.

Before jumping into that, eBay has two downloads up from the day:

  • The presentations are all in this jumbo file
  • There's a little backgrounder here (financial background and bios). 

Most of the press took eBay's lead and talks primarily about the PayPal opportunities.
  • ($ub required) The WSJ has an interesting piece out called 'eBay retreats in Web Retailing'.  In it Geoff covers the fact that eBay basically said today they won't compete head to head with Amazon on in-season product. Yours truly has a quote in here.
  • NYT has a blog post by Brad Stone here.  Brad interviewed JD and this quote was concerning.  I can guarantee you that Amazon sees eBay as a competitor: ““Everyone is saying, it’s eBay versus Amazon. We aren’t trying to be a retailer. We’re not trying to fill our shelves with every new iPod. If our sellers can find new ones and resell it, that’s fabulous.””
    •  There are two possibilities here: 
      •  JD is aloof and doesn't want the press to think Amazon is a competitor.
      •  eBay really doesn't believe Amazon competes, just like McKinsey told them that google isn't a competitive threat.  Either way, it's a weird way to approach this.
        • Maybe eBay hasn't seen the marketplace that Amazon is operating over there?  Last I checked, I think they may have ipods that are both new and used over there -oh, but they are a retailer so that's different.  Crazy right?  Well read that quote again.
  • AP story is here 
    •  JD quote - “..But we were faced with the innovator's dilemma. We were the largest, biggest, successful, profitable, and we knew we needed to make changes but the changes we'd made were always incremental because we didn't want to upset the apple cart,” he said.” 
    • Analyst quote - Derek Brown (aka Dr. Brown), an analyst with Cantor Fitzgerald, said he got the sense from the presentations that the changes eBay implemented last year didn't quite yield the results it had hoped, and that eBay is now speeding things up in an effort to bring the market back to them.”Are they making the right changes in the right order and will those changes bear the fruit they hope? It remains to be seen,” he said.  
  • Reuters story is here - JD quote: ““Its (paypal) potential is enormous,” Donahoe told Reuters. “It's not just a stepsister …, it's a second core.”  
    •  Analyst quote (shout out to eBay Strategies friend - SteveW!) “The question is: will those changes make the experience competitive with other online retailers like Amazon or Zappos who aren't standing still. That's hard to say,” Pacific Crest analyst Steve Weinstein said. 
  • FT is here  

There were two CNBC stories today from Jim Goldman.  The one early in the day was about eBay vs. Amazon (smackdown!).  Then at 8pm ET he interviewed JD - both are embedded here for your viewing pleasure.
SeekingAlpha disclosure - I am long google and amazon.

  

View original post here:
eBay analyst day news roundup.

Share/Save/Bookmark

eBay Analyst Day - Part IV - Q+A

This is part 4 (final), part 1 is here, and part 2 is here, part 3 is here and a 'top questions sellers wanted to ask' is here.  I recommend reading these in order.

Reminder - if any of the acronyms here are confusing, check the backgrounder here.

The Q+A session was fast paced so I tried to snag the stuff that was most interesting to marketplace participants with a little bit of extra thrown in.

Q: Is eBay working on merchandising?

A: ST - yes, we have more data than anyone and it's something we're working on.  LT adds that it will be driven by search

Q: Can you say more about this secondary market opportunity?

A: LT - yes, the old eBay was about cleaning junk out of your house, this is about cleaning junk out of your warehouse. The stuff retailers don't want

Q: Skype - will you split out all three businesses, or sell one?

A: JD got a little tough on this one and reiterated that Skype is something that doesn't fit, but they love it.  He wants to win in each business and that's the goal.  eBay helps PP win - brings new users, powers BML balance sheet, PP growth enabled Skype to grow without monetization.  JD - tell them why they are undervaluing it. BS joked that he wouldn't presume to do that, JD said - well give them some hints (funny).

Long blurb - highlight, BS thinks that marketplace business is valued at zero and thus people get free option on marketplace business is one way to look at it.  We work on two things - PP and eBay and stay out of Skype's way.

Q: How concentrated is your seller base? 25m sellers with $60b - Amazon has $10b with 1.5m sellers

A: LN answers - we favor those sellers regardless of size with superior experience and value.  We have a very diffuse base.  High trust sellers are winning.  We believe that over time we will have fragment base for two reasons.  1. Used segment - continue to see diversity/fragmentation. eforcity - fairly small business.  2. you will see large massive inventories in liquidation come into the market.  Search will look at all this and bring the best stuff up.

JD - we still embrace the large seller. Lots of small sellers bring great value and provide service.  We are only marketplace that can embrace both.

Q: What's the mix of new/used on the site.

A: JD - we won't go out and try and be a retailer.  90% out of season, 10% in-season (LN chimed in).  Everyone else has the in-season stuff, we're the only place with the secondary stuff.  Consumer can decide

Q: What are you going to do with all this cash that's sitting internationally?

A: First priority is M+A, second is stock repurchase, third is see one/two.  Went on long discusion about past M+A's.

Q: What exactly is happening to the auction busines -where is it going? If you're getting it on the fixed-price side, what are the competitive dynamics?

A: LN - FP has always grown faster than auction - all about showing the best results and seller quality.

Q: How do you win when you don't have supply leverage of a big box retailer? On the demand side you are facing pressure on search spend, etc. 

A: LN - On the demand side, we will delight buyers and they will use word of mouth. We want the 150m/m buyers to go tell their friends how great eBay is.

On seller side, in general, our sellers want velocity. We are dealing with different inventory of one item.  Let's take a jacket that is $150. Liquidators are moving it at $100-120.  They won't have as much, maybe 10 jackets.  They will move it on eBay because no risk and flexible.  That will bring inventory.

JD - the whole point of secondary market is that our sellers don't compete with big guys in an inefficient supply chain.

Q: Of the 6-7b in cashflow you will generate, a lot is in marketplace.  Everyone fearful that mp is in decline.  Couponing didn't work.  The value buyer isn't on the site driving GMV. Is there a risk that even with changes you don't gain share of wallet.  Also recommends doing a dividend.

A: LN - In the seller/risk equation that you point out.  You made our case!  We have to make foundational changes.  There are great deals on eBay today.  As we get into secondary market with inefficient supply chains, we can bring those deals on.

ST - If we fix the fundamentals, we will get organic growth.  We are driving th product and experience.  It is working as it's working on inactive buyers.

LN - word of mouth is our best marketing possible.

JD takeaways

JD concluded by saying there are three takeaways:

  1. Our company is about connecting buyer and sellers - we need to evolve as ecommerce evolves.
  2. Aiming our company to the future.  We now have clarity on where ecommerce is going and we will sail the ship to that point on the horizon.
  3. We have a portfolio that is positioned to win in that environment and there's a benefit to having a portfolio (except for skype - editorial):
  • Paypal - THE online payments network
  • eBay - objectivity and commitment to take the business and make it the leader
  • Skype - A great business

Finally, we have a leadership team that is absolutely commited to delivering and driving hard.  We look forward to this showing up in our results.

SeekingAlpha disclosure - I am long Google and Amazon

See the original post here:
eBay Analyst Day - Part IV - Q+A

Share/Save/Bookmark

Questions that top sellers wanted to ask eBay today.

While on Twitter, for eBay's Analyst day, I started to receive tweets from sellers reading/following and tweeting.  They wanted to ask questions via analysts.  I was able to gather those and pass them on to some of the buy+sell side folks that I knew attended.  It's an interesting wish and worth publishing:

  1. How much will advertising be growing from the eBay site – what amount of real estate does that represent and GMV cannibalization
  2. Who does eBay think of as their customer – if they had to pick one of seller/buyer/shareholder
  3. Does ebay plan to have any new protections against fraudulent buyers – will sellers have to pay for this?
  4. Are you focused on secondary or primary (diamond) – we are confused.
  5. If trust is so important – why does eBay continue to not implement verification of buyers and sellers?
  6. Does eBay give preferential treatment to large diamond sellers with better economics and the removal of negatives/low dsrs?
  7. eBay keeps saying that selection has never been better, but as sellers we are seeing the lowest selection in categories like shoes, golf, etc.  How does eBay reconcile that?
  8. Why is Griff the only one that will talk to small sellers now? (does eBay hate small sellers now?)
  9. If sellers with 4.8+ DSRs are ‘trusted sellers’, what are those with lower than 4.8?  Why not kick them off the site? (that one is mine)
  10. If 2011 is when we will grow again, how will you get all of the buyers that leave over the next two years?
  11. If UPC and catalogs are where eBay is going, how can vintage sellers stay on the site (and why).

SeekingAlpha disclosure - I am long google and Amazon

More here:
Questions that top sellers wanted to ask eBay today.

Share/Save/Bookmark

eBay Analyst day - Part III - eBay marketplaces

This is part 3, part 1 is here, and part 2 is here.  I recommend reading these in order.

Reminder - if any of the acronyms here are confusing, check the backgrounder here.

Lorrie Norrington - What's going on at eBay?

  • eBay has 25m sellers 3m items a day globally
  • Keeps talking about 'secondary market' and how they will own (more later)
  • Not retailer, won't compete with sellers. seller competition drives best value for buyers.  - the “Not a retailer” is a swipe at Amazon.
  • Creating new eBay where they have largest selection of deals (value) in any format.  Note - not easiest to use.  Good to see some kind of mission statement->

Slide4

Why aren't we growing faster?

Slide10

In the slide above, LN admits that the customer experience and 'approach to change' - READ 'eBay culture is calcitrant' - good to see they realize now they are fighting a tech battle.

LN then put forward this roadmap which was referenced throughout the rest, I'll call it the 2010+ roadmap slide if needed:

Slide11

Of note is that they are now saying this change is going to extend beyond 2010 with 2009 another 'down' year, 2010, flat and then we'll see things grow again in 2011.  If I'm Amazon, I'm licking my chops on this one.

LN covered the 08 changes for a while which are dead horse material on this blog so I won't go into that.  This slide was used to show the progress on foundational changes.  There are so many things wrong with this one, I have to circle back:

Slide14

One thing I found a little disturbing is that LT kept referring to 4.8+ DSR sellers as “Trusted sellers”.  That seems fine at first, but then what is a seller with a 4.7?  Hmmm.

Lorrie then went on to talk about the 09 initiatives in broad strokes.  They are listed here on this slide:

Slide18 (1)

Probably the most interesting one to me is that they are going to guarantee transactions it seem  starting in US and then UK - no details were offered on how this will work. Embedded sku (parent child as we call it in the Amazon world) will be good and finally enable sellers to offer a 'choice listing'.

Next, LN shed some light on the secondary market.  This was interesting as it seemed like something new they are focused on, but going back to my old analyst day decks, they talked about this as the tail of ecommerce so to me this is just a new chart that says the same thing they've been saying.  Maybe I'm missing the point though.

Slide20

The middle bubble seems to be where they think they have a huge opportunity - out of season, outlet, overstock and liquidation, which I guess is true, but to me that's where the bulk of eBay is today, so are they saying they aren't growing where they already are?

Here's another slide on the topic, but again, doesn't offer up anything that isn't already what eBay is doing other than maybe a new focus on 'deep' inventories.  They did say that deal of day is driving some volume now which is good/true.

Slide22


LN handed it over to ST.

Stephanie -Global Product (meaning how does the eBay site operate?)

Lorrie went through no short of about 50 slides showing the user experience changes over the last year.  A couple of tidbits from this:

  • I noticed that the banner ad was stripped from all of the screen shots.  I guess ST doesn't find them useful either ;-)
  • She showed the product-based experience in media that is live now.
  • Showed the innovative new “buy box” that eBay has - picks out the best deal for the consumer in the upper right hand side.
  • Snapshot view and a 'choice listing' - terrible experience for buyer and seller as it isn't part of the eBay tech platform 
  • Showed some Kijiji integration I've never seen before - I was hoping they would kill this brand today, looks like it's here to stay (ugh!)
  • Put forth a datapoint that eBay has best value - showed a Tivo HD and said it is 12% cheaper on eBay than anywhere else online (I'm going to check this)
  • eBay deal of day
    • sold 8k xbox cards in 6hrs
    • sold 7k logitech remotes (ChannelAdvisor customer!)

Then ST showed a notional view (mockup) of how eBay could drive a great experience - it shows a product-based experience with the top chunk of items coming from “Trusted Sellers”, the next from Marketplace deals and the last from 'whats nearby'.  This is actually very close to what I was thinking of in eBay 2.0, minus the ads at the bottom which I believe add little to no to negative value.

Slide46

ST then talked about sellers and said that eBay is the best channel for sellers because:

  • Velocity - best channel for cash flow
  • Efficiency - increased operational efficiency (they want to drive this for sellers)
  • Reliability - release management that's controlled (2/yr) for sellers

Mark Carges - SVP+CTO eBay

MC took the stage and didn't go through many slides, but it was actually the best part of the day because it looks like eBay finally has someone there that can help them on the technology/r+d side.

MC talked about 4 areas:

  1. Search
    1. Talked about the challenges that are unique to eBay (more real time vs. web-search)
    2. 09 plan:
      1. Improve relevance
      2. Better sorting/bestmatch
      3. search as a platform - deliver custom experiences based on category
  2. Catalog - wants to bring structured and unstructured data together on eBay to form a uniquely eBay catalog.  (editorial: Neat idea, hard to execute and starting at zero.
  3. User Experience
    1. Showed some mockups of better buying experiences - heavily disclaimed that they are beyond experimental.
    2. One was a color picker like www.like.com
    3. Another was a knock off of bluenile's diamond builder
    4. Nothing innovative IMO
  4. Platform
    1. Showed a project echo item - which is an application that can show up in Seller Manager Pro
    2. Likened this to their 'appstore' equivalent to the iphone - that's a real stretch as:
      1. eBay is the king of closed platforms and I haven't seen that change at all culturally, in fact it is going backwards
      2. This is in SMPro - only a small fraction of users see it.
      3. There's like one company (terapeak) that is even thinking of building against this thing.

All in all, I thought this was the best part of the presentation as it seems like they have someone finally thinking about the hard problems and how to solve them.  Going to be key to keep this guy and make him effective given non-tech culture at eBay.

LN wraps

LN concluded by recaping much of what was already said.  She also spent some time on classifieds pointing out that it has grown from $86m in 05 to $270m in 08 - a 46% CAGR.  She postulated that it is a $22B opportunity for eBay by 2010.

The most interesting part is she forecast what the marketplace business will look like in 2011 here:

Slide79

This is a little bit scary to me given that the low-end is $5B revenue which is LESS than they did in 2008.  Even the high end - $7B is only 25% above where they were in 2008. I don't know what the CAGR is there, but it's very very low.  The mid-point of $6B is 20% growth over a three years period.  I don't think this is what Wall St. is thinking with 10 estimates.

Skype is next which I'll skip and then BS which I'll circle back to later.  Up next from a blog perspective will be Q+A

SeekingAlpha disclosure - I am long amazon and google

View original here:
eBay Analyst day - Part III - eBay marketplaces

Share/Save/Bookmark